An online outlet claims that Target is apparently paying attention to gun control groups and seriously considering a sweeping ban on firearms except for law enforcement.
This broad ban may end up being a formal policy change that could even result in stores posted. The reasons are likely due to the fact that they were targeted by the gun control groups and then someone, likely a shoplifter based on the evidence released so far, left a gun behind in the toy aisle of a Target store in South Carolina.
Because of the combination of events, Target is getting a lot more media than other outlets ever received on this issue. I would strongly suggest that if you don’t want Target stores posted, call them at 1-800-440-0680 (menu choice 2 for “store experience”) and let them know that as a lawful gun owner, especially if you carry concealed, you would appreciate it if they didn’t ban guns because a criminal misused one. Feel free to fill their email box as well at Guest.Relations@Target.com.
I will say this to Target:
I will be seriously grumpy if I have to stop spending money with you because you tell me that the gun I lawfully carry concealed isn’t welcome. I would disclose how much I spend on bags and jewelry there, not to mention the very pretty peacock cards that I’ve been sending out like crazy lately, but then I’d probably have to answer to Sebastian on that issue. Just know that I’m definitely a contributor to your bottom line, as well as a lawful gun owner. Regardless, I will vote with my wallet if you tell me that I am not welcome in your stores just because I own and lawfully carry a firearm.
UPDATE: It looks like the local grassroots are also taking notice and asking people to call in/email their opposition to a sweeping anti-gun policy.
UPDATE II: This is my favorite graphic so far. Share to your likeminded friends lists, folks.
I’ve written a polite letter to Target urging them not to ban guns from their stores, to remain neutral, and continue to fall back on existing laws regulating lawful carry.
As I suspect that *something* is going to happen one way or the other, I urged them to minimize the effect on those who are lawfully carrying by suggesting that if they feel they must do something, they should limit their bans to apply only to the open carry of long guns or, as a last resort, the open carry of handguns, while still allowing concealed carry (which should disturb nobody).
I called and expressed my opinion on this matter via the customer service phone number.
Interestingly I was picking up on a accent I know but do not hear too often. When I finished sharing my respectful thoughts on the issue at hand, I ask the woman if she was located in Canada. Sure enough she was in Manitoba, Canada.
So please keep that in mind when you are talking to the customer service folks on the phone. Especially since they live in a country were roughly 22% of households have a firearm, and only 2.3% of household have a handgun.
Please be extra respectful since they may not be as versed on the topic at hand, compared to if you were calling an U.S. based call center.
That is a good point to make. The woman I spoke with was from Minnesota, the location of their corporate headquarters. The lesson is be polite in general.
Email sent.
Comment sent:
Dear Sir or Madam:
I understand you are considering setting Target stores up as “gun-free zones”.
In light of the efficacy of such policies against those who misuse firearms, I believe this may be emotionally satisfying but is asinine on the merits.
I would point out also to you that most recent episodes which excite the liberal gun-control community don’t reflect what is happening in liberal, gun-free cities. As in Sandy Hook and Isla Vista, it was white kids in pastoral settings that were being shot at. 442 children were hit by gunfire in Chicago in 2012, and the gun control worthies didn’t say a thing. It took Sandy Hook for the great Rahm Emmanuel to propose even more restrictive laws, not the carnage of citizens of “his city”. Is that because those kids were universally minority and poor? Are such people who you wish to ally your company with?
I shop regularly at Target, almost every weekend. If Target is so unable to resist such a bad decision, I will find other places to take my business. I dislike gun-free zones, whether I carry or not, because if someone does decide it is a place for violent crime, there is zero chance of an armed citizen intervening quicker than the arrival of police. That puts ME at greater risk.
Life is hard. It’s harder if you are stupid (and take risks you don’t have to).
Email sent-reminded them about the armed robberies in the parking lots of the local stores in the last year, as well as the fact if they don’t want my money, Amazon does.
If there were only some way to avoid having to grovel to these retailers so they don’t adopt anti-gun policies every time a bunch of asshats in Texas open carry rifles through their stores. If there were only some way..
And where are the usual flurry of posts saying that the Open Carry Texas Clown Militia are freedom fighters and 2nd Amendment heroes? Perhaps they’ll show up once Target finalizes their anti-gun policy.
i have often found that people who call others “Asshats”are themselves Asshats
I called and as soon as I mentioned I was a legal gun owner. the girl hung up on me. Fuck target
Try again. I was accidentally disconnected the first time I called. I didn’t even get out the word hello before the call disconnected.
I would call the corporate headquarters and report her. Also call back the customer service number, because you’ll get someone else, and let them know what happened.
We’re to trust Target with our physical security now, when we couldn’t trust them with our credit/debit card numbers last year?
That’s a very fine point to make.
Concealed means concealed. I’ll carry wherever I damned well please as long as it’s not illegal. Corporate policy is not law and at worst they can ask me to leave if for some reason my handgun is discovered.
That’s not always true. In some states, a posted store does have the weight of law and telling people that they can carry concealed in it regardless may get them in serious legal trouble.
Yeah but I live in PA
So by ignoring their policy your basically saying you’re not going to quit doing business with them regardless of policy and proving to them and the anti-gunners that the pro-2nd amendment don’t have any economic (and therefore political) clout. As someone fairly famous once said, “We either hang together or we hang separately”
Don’t screw over your fellow gun owners by sneering “concealed means concealed” and continuing to do business and spend money at anti-2nd amendment businesses. You’re hurting yourself in the long run whether you realize it or not.
Please do not tell carriers there not welcome, your inviting criminals and the will be killings ! have you been paying whats been happening to other stores that are pulling this stupid stunt
I live in PA and hold a PA LTCF. There is no provision in PA law for limiting my right to carry a gun in a store that is open to the public. Private property, with trespass law considerations, does not apply to a public accommodation such as a store. Just like you can discriminate against Jews (I am Jewish, by the way) in your own home all you want, but if you operate a store, hotel, restaurant, dog grooming salon, etc that is a public accommodation and hence you can’t discriminate against Jews at work and get away with it. You can not even ask me to leave the store if the reason you are asking is my gun. That would be like asking a Jew to leave your store just because he is Jewish. Nope, can’t do that in PA. So, I don’t really care what signs they put up.
Anyway, I don’t shop at Target because they are a shadow of their former selves. They used to have good stuff priced fairly. Now they sell the same crapola that Wal-Mart sells.
Um, no. Your 2nd Amendment rights don’t trump my private property rights. Do you also believe you can have a friendly conversation at the ballet without being asked to leave – because it’s a “public accommodation” or whatever? 1st Amendment and all, right?
first to let you know there are no private property rights in the USA. second a “ballet” is a ticketed event, not a open to public.
there is a clear civil right in bearing arms.
So if there’s an open ballet night with no tickets, everyone who shows up gets to see the ballet, then they’d have to let people have conversations at normal volume levels, because 1st Amendment – and – there are no property rights in the USA or something?
There is no civil right to bear arms on someone else’s private property. If you think there is – or for that matter should be – then you have a very contorted view of our nation and its laws.
I called and was very polite. When I went into my statement the target rep hung up on me.
Yeah, it’s kinda like Michael Moore giving a statement on wealth inequality to the doorman at the bank headquarters. They don’t give a damn, and in fact, if you make their no-skill job harder they might just try to screw you. “Yeah, Boss, 110% of the people who called said they support a gun ban.” I imagine their own personal biases could play into that as well.
A better strategy would be to stop getting ourselves into these losing battles. Rather, convince the Open Carry Texas and Open Carry Tarrant County attention whores to stop attention whoring. They’ve become the most effective gun control organizations in a generation.
Part of that’s a problem as it looks like the Watts has been farming OCT’s archives.
Given that the Target stuff and the Smash Burger push she gave was based on last year’s photos. (Which isn’t surprising, as she’s pulling up articles from 2012 about the NRA salaries to push).
Which means even if OCT stops now, there’s plenty of evidence out there.
Getting them to stop attention whoring, great idea. But much of the damage is too late.
The prudent 2A group would take steps to remove harmful photographs from their, and their members’, social media pages. In fact, this would be an obvious first step. These pitiful bands of misfits are tiny, so that wouldn’t be an impossible task. But the clowns at Open Carry Texas and Open Carry Tarrant County don’t think anything they do is harmful – despite the path of 2A destruction they leave in their wake.
When pistol OC doesn’t become law in Texas, and instead rifle OC is outlawed, they’ll continue to blame everyone but themselves. Sadly, that’s probably what it’ll take to protect gun owners in the other 49 states from their special brand of help.
I agree 100%. These goofballs open carrying rifles in Texas for the shock value of it are pushing those sitting on the fence about open carry off. Onto the other side.
And I refuse to do business with any company who disregards my right to lawfully carry a concealed weapon for the protection of me and my family.
Called. Emailed. Crossed my fingers.
I would prefer that they enforce a statement by posting than to just come out of the closet as being totally antigun (as Chipotle did — they don’t want you in their store if you have a gun and are not a cop… period, full stop!).
I’d wager 9/10 gun owners don’t know that Chipotle doesn’t want them. Posting a big honking sign on the door though that says “No gun owners allowed — get your food to go and eat outside the kitchen” sends a much stronger message. It is more likely to piss off our base and motivate them. I don’t think you should have to honor no-guns signs (if they REALLY don’t want you in the store then make them trespass you, just like any other undesirable) but even in the states where you don’t have to honor the sign I’d like to think that many gun owners will choose to shop elsewhere.
This is a culture war and people are picking sides. At least there is some clarity now.
Yet panics, in some cases, have their uses; they produce as much good as hurt. Their duration is always short; the mind soon grows through them, and acquires a firmer habit than before. But their peculiar advantage is, that they are the touchstones of sincerity and hypocrisy, and bring things and men to light, which might otherwise have lain forever undiscovered. In fact, they have the same effect on secret traitors, which an imaginary apparition would have upon a private murderer. They sift out the hidden thoughts of man, and hold them up in public to the world. Many a disguised Tory has lately shown his head…
Actually, personally, I would take a different tack with Target. The threat of boycotts is often more huffing and puffing. Corporations actually changing their policy can backfire because it can cause legislatures to force places like Target to allow CCW. Corporations ban guns mostly because they hate to be in the media and a statement is the quickest way out. One thing corporations hate more though is when legislatures tell them what their in-store policy must be. That’s where I would hit them.
Email sent, feel free to copy in whole or in part:
I recently read an article saying that Target was weighing the possibility of banning firearms from stores. I am a responsible gun owner and concealed carry permit holder, and I strongly urge you not to ban customers from carrying firearms in your stores.
I understand that several high profile incidents of people open carrying unholstered long guns (i.e., Chipotle) can be alarming for other customers, and I can’t blame you for wanting to make sure everyone feels safe in your store. For this reason I can support the decision to ask that your customers would carry concealed if they chose to bring firearms into Target stores. This option seems like a good compromise from an outright ban, and I believe all but those of the most extreme positions on either side of the issue can accept such a decision.
However, if Target chooses to set the policy that firearms are not welcome in their stores even if concealed, I will take my business exclusively to your competitors. Not because I’m filled with anger or hate over your decision, I just value my and my family’s safety more than a store policy made to assuage the vocal gun control crowd. I hope you can understand my decision, thank you for taking the time to listen.
This.
Doesn’t matter to me. I will still carry in there if they like it or not. My state does not make it a criminal offense regardless if they post signs. If they do in the rare event happen to catch me concealed carrying all they can do is ask me to leave.
Since this is pretty much the same post as above I’ll repeat my response … because I think this is a bad attitude for your fellow pro-2nd amendment friends who may not live in a state where the signs have no legal standing (like Texas):
By ignoring their policy your basically saying you’re not going to quit doing business with them regardless of policy and proving to them and the anti-gunners that the pro-2nd amendment groups don’t have any economic (and therefore political) clout. As someone fairly famous once said, “We either hang together or we hang separatelyâ€
Don’t screw over your fellow gun owners by sneering “concealed means concealed†and continuing to do business and spend money at anti-2nd amendment businesses. You’re hurting yourself in the long run whether you realize it or not.
Um….. NO. Target is not “anti second amendment” if they disallow firearms on their property – especially if they only prohibit open carry, which is completely reasonable. I wouldn’t blame them for doing so at this point. And since I live in PA, where corporate policy doesn’t have the force of law, I will simply ignore their policy, keep my firearm concealed, and go about my business as I always have.
If they only prohibit open carry I’m with you on that. I won’t change my habits either. So let’s assume it’s just the basic “no guns” sign.
While you’re right banning guns, including CCW, on their property doesn’t make them “anti second amendment” per se it does strengthen the hand of those who are. i.e. “See — Target banned all guns nationwide and hardly anybody quit shopping there. Guns aren’t that important to people so let’s ban them everywhere.”
So we lose momentum to get CCW passed in places where it’s not because it looks like the anti-gunners are winning the argument, people who live in places that signs do have force of law are screwed, and overall we just lose momentum and give it to them.
So if you continue to spend money at anti-carry places with the smug “it’s not illegal/concealed means concealed” then you are EXACTLY like the idiots walking around with slung AR-15’s and taking selfies at Starbucks; while nothing you’re doing is wrong or illegal, you are effectively helping out the anti-gun groups by being too dense to understand the bigger issues.
Stand with us. Drive a few miles extra and go to Walmart. Because if Target does a nationwide signs-in-place ban on all firearms (and I don’t know if they’ll try to finesse this like Starbucks — I still shop there) nationwide you’re either with us or against us with your dollars; there’s no middle ground there.
Amazon is where I do ALL of my shopping. ;)
Let me know if the criminals follow your anti gun policy. In the mean time, I will take my business elsewhere.
I sent the below letter.
I have heard that your logo is about to become so very appropriate. Adopting sweeping rules about guns and particularly targeting individuals with concealed carry permits seeks to confiscate a person’s inherent natural right of self-defense.
Unfortunately psychopaths do not cower before rules such as yours to excludiefirearms, but instead seek the sanctuary you would create for their brutality, terrorism and suicide. For example consider Adam Lanza at the Newtown shooting. He stole his mother’s guns (which was against the law), and then killed her with them (which was against the law). Next he transported these loaded guns onto school property and inside the building (which was against the law). He discharged the weapons within the city limits (which was against the law), and murdered 26 people (which was against the law). Finally, Mr. Lanza committed suicide (which was against the law). As usual he was the only person with a gun and the police showed up for body counts and paperwork.
Now you seriously believe adding a sign to your front doors will be an effective barrier to lunatics. At this point I could provide you an essay explaining the futility of popular gun control initiatives such as those you contemplate. However, you have clearly adopted a primitive faith position that can best be compared to chanting an unintelligible mantra while beating chicken entrails with a rock. You plan to invited your customers to join you in a suicide pact that overrules the judgment of Sheriffs who inspected an individual’s personal life before granting them authority to use deadly force for self-protection. Since any thinking person should never venture unarmed into a gun free zone, the only reasonable step I can take now is to warn the 50 or so people on my email list and the unnumbered legions reached on Facebook and Twitter to never enter your stores again once the new policies are adopted.
Your letter, though well stated, is predicated on the assumption that Target would be instituting an official ban as a means of preventing a mass shooting. But that’s not their angle—they’d be doing it simply as a means to keep out people open carrying long arms, which freaks out the rest of their customers. They wouldn’t institute the policy to save lives, they would institute it to save dozens of customers from leaving the store when some guy with an AR in a tactical sling walks in the front door.
I mean, we all know that it’s TOTALLY NORMAL BEHAVIOR to take along your tactical rifle when purchasing Oreos, but for some bizarre reason, other people tend to think of it as odd at best, terrifying at worst.
My email:
Just to note, the magical “no guns” field that is emanated by whatever little sign you plan on using when you ban firearms from your stores also affects my wallet and prevents any of my money from entering as well.
With a Wal Mart across the street from the nearest Target, it’s a simple matter to spend my money there instead.
Or to drive to one of the several struggling Malls or K-Marts who would welcome my business and rejoice at your company’s hardships.
It will not just be me who will shop elsewhere, but my entire family. You might even notice the loss in revenue.
I understand that “doing the right thing” must take precedence over mere profits of course. Oh wait, it cannot. I see that Target is a publicly traded corporation and dropped from 56.91 to 56.86 today.
Personally I don’t think I’d care to explain that those losses could be directly attributed to gun owners choosing to shop elsewhere.
Just called Target. The operator kept talking about “open carry” even though I never brought it up, which makes me wonder just what policy Target is considering adapting. Are they really going for a total ban? Anyway, I made my opinion known that if they knuckle under to the anti-gun groups I would not buy from Target the big screen TV I was planning on buying.
BTW, I am not a CCW holder since I live in Commiefornia.
That’s something new, as they only mentioned a policy on carrying guns when I spoke with them. It’s possible that phone calls and email may be steering them towards only limiting openly carried firearms instead of all firearms.
Moms Demand a protest in Dallas for the annual meeting at Target:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/moms-demand-action-to-host-stroller-jam-outside-of-target-corp-annual-shareholder-meeting-in-dallas-on-wednesday-2014-06-10?reflink=MW_news_stmp
If you go, be sure to snap pictures of her armed escort!
My family or I will not be doing any shopping at Target!
I carried concealed in Target yesterday, just like I always do. I don’t care if target posts 50 foot neon signs in front of their stores, I will still carry concealed in target.
And I don’t support the moronic drama queens of Texas Open Carry. They have done more to hurt the pro-gun movement then all the bloomberg groups combined
You’re missing the point. And you don’t seem to respect the rights of the private property holder either.
polite email sent
Actually, a provision of the Open Carry law here in Minnesota is that if stores like Target (or churches, other organizations) post a sign (fitting a proscribed format) then it is illegal to openly carry.