Robb takes the arguments apart. One thing to consider is that by driving up the price of ammunition, it will have the effect of making people who do have firearms for self-defense, including police officers, practice a lot less. The model legislation bans possession of non-encoded ammo, so no reloading or surplus to keep people shooting.
Even if you exempt police and military from bullet serialization, without the civilian market, economies of scale disappear, the prices goes up, and pretty soon it costs more to train, so there will be less of it. Shooting competition, which a lot of us participate in, right along side many police officers and military personnel, will also disappear.
This is a bad idea, that will actually do more harm to society than good, and I hope more mainstream gun control groups like the Brady Campaign will realize this and not pursue this nonsense (*chuckle* I can’t even write that with a straight face). If we’re going to be a society that has firearms in it, we have every interest to make sure the people who wield them are as practiced and proficient as they can be. Making ammunition more expensive will have the opposite effect. No group can support this type of legislation that and call itself in favor of firearms safety.
Wait.
This isn’t a microstamping bill or proposal. This is about bullet purchase permits, modeled (one would think) after NC’s pistol purchase permits, or the Illinois model.
The microstamping comment at the end of the original article seemed tacked-on, and not wholly pertinent to the issue.
I don’t see this as a bullet expense issue, or an individual bullet tracking issue, so much as an “ask the government for permission” issue – by far. I think the issue has gotten confused a bit. Re-read the article.
Or you can bravely visit my blog and see what I said about it.
http://2amusing.wordpress.com/2008/12/05/durham-nc-stop-the-bullet-ammo-licensing-proposed/
Not only is the encoding of ammunition a bad idea, but the gov’t should be SUBSIDIZING ammunition to make it cheaper.
I am willing to compromise on this policy position.
How about, the gov’t does nothing? No encoding, no free bullets for the people? Who says we can’t meet the anti-civil rights types halfway?
Well, that’s still going to drive the costs up. But how do you enforce something along these lines without tracking purchases?
oh good, lets use a RACIST law, created during one of the worst times in NC history to model another law.
http://www.ncrpa.org/ncgunfaq.htm
“Q: What is the deal with this Pistol Purchase Permit law? I moved from one NC county to another and found that the Sheriffs of each county have vastly different requirements for getting Permits. Isn’t this covered by State law?
A: The Pistol Purchase Permit law was passed in 1919, and is a classic piece of Jim Crow-era legislation (Jim Crow History). The recognition of civil rights for blacks and other minorities meant that the Constitution applied to minorities. This meant that blacks and other minorities could exercise their natural right to self-defense, with the full support of the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution and Article I, Sec. 30 of the North Carolina Constitution. This did not sit well with the Ku Klux Klan (which for many years was headquartered in Raleigh, just down the street from the Legislature) and other racist groups and influential individuals. The racist members of the State Legislature knew they could not overtly prevent minorities from purchasing handguns for protection, so the seemingly innocent Pistol Purchase Permit law was passed. This law allowed local Sheriffs and government officials to discriminate with impunity at the local level.
Even today, the Pistol Purchase Permit law is implemented in an arbitrary and capricious fashion by 100 individual County Sheriffs. Some Sheriffs do little more than collect the fees and hand out permits to the law-abiding, because more than that is not necessary. Others implement ridiculous, intrusive requirements that either discriminate on a wholesale basis or are selectively applied so that discrimination can be more personalized.
With the advent of the National Instant Check System (NICS) there is no public safety reason why the Pistol Purchase Permit system needs to continue. The Jim Crow era is over, and the laws of that era need to be eliminated. Most people agree with that in principle, but for some reason when it comes to guns a significant number of people seem to think that discrimination and arbitrary requirements are a good thing. This is something NCRPA totally disagrees with.
We have been trying for 10 years to get the Pistol Purchase Permit system completely eliminated. Apparently when it comes to gun control a lot of people think Jim Crow is still a good idea.”
+1 Chris. Exactly.
Oh bee tee dubyah…
For information, contact Rev. Melvin Whitley at tellmelvin@nc.rr.com
Ahem ahem.
@Sebastian, either they decide to run a NICS check on purchasers (!) or they call for an ammunition buyer’s registration system of some kind.
They don’t have to track the bullets, just make it a PITA to make the purchase. The bullets aren’t currently trackable (and maybe they get around to microstamping legislation in the future – wouldn’t put it past them) – I just think they want the purchasers vetted.
It’s still wrong as all get out. I just don’t think the issue of tracking is part of this right now.
once again laws only aimed at those unwilling to break them…and prags spring to action saying “they just want the purchasers vetted” as if that somehow makes one bit of difference.
J’ock please wait for government permission to reply before you do so, you know, just to be sure you’re not on the prohibited list.
This is yet another of the unintended consequences of the pragmatists position, ever increasing legislation that has ZERO impact on crime. They know that you’ll eventually give in and concede some ground to them, they’ll just keep doing it, as will you, and in the end they win THANKS to you.
Keep up the great work, the joyce foundation loves your help.
Tom.
I’m just trying to clarify the problem. I like neither bullet serialization nor bullet purchase permitting. I support neither, nor am I going to. I find any further erosion of the 2nd appalling.
It seems like the issues have been conflated, and that because of this folks are taking aim at a problem that hasn’t yet appeared in Durham (serialization) within the context of a proposal that is being put forth (ammo purchase permitting.)
Being from North Carolina, I understand well the pistol permit system (which I hate) and believe that this proposal will be more of the same, only applied to ammo. You see, I believe in knowing the nature of the problem before trying to solve it. The article actually gives very little in the way of facts, unfortunately.
For this I’m a “prag,” a concessionist, and an ally of the Joyce Foundation? You, sir, are mistaken, and I would like an apology.
Reloading is a great hobby for an old man. It’s not just a bad idea to try to deprive him of something that gives him harmless pleasure. It is a wicked idea.
“If we’re going to be a society that has firearms in it, we have every interest to make sure the people who wield them are as practiced and proficient as they can be.”
We are a society that has firearms in it, we have every interest to make sure the people who wield them are as practiced and proficient as they can be.
Fixed it
I was saying it from a point of view anti-gun people can relate to. Despite their best efforts, we’re going to be an armed society. I think they lost that battle. Now they are battling over the extent that we may be armed.
Tom, please, by all means show me where any of us here are saying this is a good idea. Otherwise, puff your chest elsewhere. Don’t you have some government agent to be threatening or something? Seriously, I think I see someone getting ready to infringe on your rights!!!! GO GETT’EM BOY!!!
J, I was only illustrating how easy it is to manufacture ammunition and how poorly even serialized ammo would work, much less when you can buy or make the components yourself. Without serialization (which is already damn near impossible), this has no effect on anyone except the law abiding, and even then there will be people like me who won’t bother with it since I don’t purchase premade ammo anyway.
That’s the problem Sebastian. YOU think they lost that battle, THEY don’t. They refuse to lose and will continue fighting for hearts and minds UNTIL they win.
They own the places that will give them the minds. Schools. They own the places that give them the hearts. Human emotions. They own the propaganda machines that will give them their victory in time.
That’s the problem Sebastian. YOU think they lost that battle, THEY don’t. They refuse to lose and will continue fighting for hearts and minds UNTIL they win.
I know they don’t, which is why I have no intention on giving up what I’ve been doing. And they don’t really have the option of keeping going until they win, they have the option of keeping going until the funding dries up. Ask anyone whether the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union is a serious force in politics today. The Temperance movement is a political corpse. People who wanted the freedom to have a drink won.
They own the places that will give them the minds. Schools. They own the places that give them the hearts. Human emotions. They own the propaganda machines that will give them their victory in time.
I think conservatives tend to overestimate the effect that schools have on a child’s political preference versus their parents, peers, and the culture the are raised in. I’m not saying the left controlling many of the organs of the state and of the media isn’t a serious problem, but it’s not an insurmountable challenge.
Sebastian –
If you really believe that last paragraph, you obviously haven’t been in very many college classes…
I’ve been to a few. Spent four years on one. Bitter went to a highly left-wing women’s college in Massachusetts. Upbringing is a bigger influence.
I have a compromise for ACORN: I do whatever I want, and they shut the fuck up.
Thanks for the heads-up.
It is just as well that they ban non serial stamped ammo before banning firearms because, even if they did the firearm ban first, I would insist that they take all my ammo prior.
Not one step back.
By the way.
I went to the trouble to transcribe the video that accompanied the story.
Seriously. Seriously. Read the transcription. You’re not actually outraged yet. You just think you are.
http://2amusing.wordpress.com/2008/12/08/durham-nc-ammo-licensing-video-transcribed/
I transcribed it as exactly as possible.
You’re welcome. :)