Good on Open Carry Texas for setting things right. You can find the statement here:
For all further open carry walks with long guns, we are adopting the following unified protocol and general policy to best ensure meeting our respective legislative mission to legalize open carry:
- Always notify local law enforcement prior to the walk, especially the day of.
- Carry Flags and signs during your walk to increase awareness.
- Carry the long gun on a sling, not held.
- Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all.
- If asked to leave, do so quietly and do not make it a problem.
- Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business.
- Do not go into businesses with TABC signs posted with a long gun (Ever).
- If at all possible, keep to local small businesses that are 2A friendly.
I think if people follow these new guidelines, we won’t have any problems form here on out. I still question the value of the overall tactic, but I’m mostly concerned about stopping the bleeding, and I think this should accomplish that. Now hopefully people will listen.
I’d also note that any time I offer criticism of other gun rights advocates or groups, there’s always one or two people who try to argue that arguing with each other is counterproductive, and only helps the antis. I agree that can sometimes be the case with petty bickering, but in cases where tactics put the image of the movement is at risk, and our opponents become energized and emboldened, I think it’s important to speak out. This shows that speaking out can work. Shame is a powerful motivator.
Hat Tip to Bob Owens, who notes this probably won’t be good news for Shannon Watts.
There is a difference between constructive criticism offered to help and serving as a megaphone for Bloomberg’s henchmen. Some of the allegedly pro-gun blogs are very clearly the latter, seizing upon any opportunity to alienate a particularly motivated segment of the firearms community. Some have tried to harness this motivation and that’s probably been successful.
From the way things sound right now, the long gun marches/rallies/events are hurting efforts to pass OC in 2015. From what I hear legislators and/or candidates that have spoken to TSRA and related parties have asked for an end, for now, to long gun OC.
If the goal is to “educate” people about OCing a long gun then thats your business, if the goal is to pass handgun OC in some form in the 2015 Texas legislature then it’s time to change tactics and work on new methods that will generate positive or neutral press.
My goal is to do what I can to get the open carry of modern handguns legalized in Texas, everyone involved in the OC movement needs to ask themselves what their goal is. I might be get an OC FUDD label from a lot of people, but the in your face tactics are not working and will not work to pass OC.
Wow. I’m impressed. Good on them.
Can we just take a vote and draft Rob Allen as the official Grand Marshal of all Open Carry activists? I think most of the drama would evaporate pretty quickly if the most squared away guy on open carry started beating the mouth breathers and neck beards over the head with the pants he would almost certainly not be wearing. But good for them for trying to get things ironed out for the future.
And not it looks like if every single person stopped open carrying any guns in Texas, Shannon would still find fodder.
Just look at this:
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2014/05/hey-shannon-this-is-old-news.html
Yes that is Shannon using year old pictures to gin up fear about open carry… in a restaurant that already banned due to Texas liquor laws.
The good news is that if OCT keeps to their new policy these will be the victories Shannon will have to work with.
True that. There is a never-ending supply of idiots on our side seemingly desperate to be the next anti-gun propaganda centerpiece.
Take, for instance, Jacob Cordova
I wonder if that’s the same Jacob Cordova that was arrested with C.J. Grisham (see: Open Carry Texas) for acting stupidly last year:
I wouldn’t bet any money on Open Carry Texas or any of the other groups getting their act together, Or, Why both Texas gubernatorial candidates changed their mind about enacting pistol open carry. Seriously – both candidates said they’d sign pistol open carry into law. All these
attention whoresopen carry activists have to do is avoid negative media attention. Yet that seems to be the only thing they’re doing lately. Brilliant.Any of these groups? What about Florida Carry?
And I find it fascinating that you get so much on how this group can’t get it’s act together in a very thread where it announced a change. Maybe they won’t work… but you seem awful willing to throw everyone under the bus.
Thought I truly love you saying “that seems to be the only thing they’re doing lately†in a post about something that was done last year.
Perhaps I could have been more clear. The story from last year merely shows how few degrees of separation exist between the guy who runs Open Carry Texas and other extremely unhelpful people on our side. Google C.J. Grisham’s other legal woes to see why he might not be the best person to bring sanity back(?) to open carry activism.
As far as Florida Carry, I’m pretty sure we’re talking about Texas here. But if you want to expand the discussion into something that’ll allow you to feel slighted or whatever your game plan is, then good luck with that.
Allow me to help you with that:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/21/texas-gun-groups-circular-firing-squad.html
Oh goody, he’s enjoying the “notoriety”, and not so swift on subtlety.
The problem is that the bar is such that all it takes is one person.
Oh brother. This site really needs to enable posting of pics. His statement calls for a Jean Luc Picard “facepalm” gif.
These are good policies. And I think one more thing would be for them to say anytime they are asked anything: “look we support the right to open carry a rifle. But really, we just want to open carry a pistol. Please let us do this ”
Of course we have people like mike here who are blind and just hate open carry, but luckily he is in the minority with his incorrect opinions. These policies will go a long way to getting open carry for pistols in Texas.
Quick question:
Who has created more Gun Free Zones lately? Me, or the open carry activists in Texas (and, heck, California) advocating for more gun freedom?
Seen on the internets somewhere:
“If every time you open carry you create a new gun free zone, then maybe it’s time to change things up.”
Our disagreement isn’t that I “just hate open carry,” it’s that you believe that intentions are more important than results, and I believe the opposite. You know who else thinks intentions matter more? The folks who believe that you can prevent gun violence by simply putting up a “No Guns Allowed” sign. Same line of thinking, but hey – their heart’s in the right place, right?
“Who has created more Gun Free Zones lately? Me, or the open carry activists in Texas (and, heck, California) advocating for more gun freedom?”
Neither actually. No Gun Free Zones were created, and again, while the group in California lost the battle, they won the war. Shall Issue is now law of the land out there.
“Our disagreement isn’t that I “just hate open carry,†it’s that you believe that intentions are more important than results, and I believe the opposite.”
No, its about both intentions and results. I don’t like the in your face tactics. But you want OCers to do nothing and just be happy. And you ignore the results.
I’m also not going to freak and call the cops on peaceful, legal gun carriers. You know who does that? Anti-gunners who don’t care about rights.
Simply saying things with conviction doesn’t make them true. Not only is California not Shall Issue now, but even San Diego County (of Peruta v. San Diego fame) isn’t Shall Issue either.
No, but the fact that they are true means it is true. So California is shall issue, and San Diego will be shortly once the court rules.
So again, you lose.
I wish I’d seen OCT institute a “Prime Directive”: if you carry a gun to get a reaction from the public, then you are doing it wrong.
Somehow I don’t think folks like OCT will lower the drama and leave the shiny guns alone, in order to just act normal. They are just going to be ugly somewhere else. They will still play with their toys (note: “not a toy”) and try to “acclimate” the public through ridiculous acts of drama whoring.
Sorry. I am fully supportive of OC, but really really hate OC “activists” who do dumb things like this. They are broken and we need to cut them off from the herd.
I like the idea of carrying an empty Handgun Holster. Then, if someone asks, “Where’s your Gun?”, you can explain the circumstances on WHY it’s empty.
Plus, you don’t bang into things.
I like this set of policies. Really, that 3-6 isn’t already “COMMON SENSE” for these folks is beyond me. That pretty much summarizes my idea of OC activism. Since we don’t have the BS “TABC sign” stuff here in PA I could care less about that.
Looks like they did the same stunt at Chili’s.
Of course they did. Now Chili’s is in a tough spot. It they don’t change their gun policy, these OCing idiots will declare victory and plaster gun selfies all over the Chili’s Facebook page and make “Guns and Chili’s” stickers, and generally work very hard to make Chili’s regret their decision – just like they did with Starbucks. If Chili’s does change their gun policy, then of course it’s because they hate guns or whatever (despite not hating guns until the very moment OCing idiots made it an issue for them).
On the plus side, eventually these idiots will run out of businesses to turn against us. Hopefully they don’t move on to playgrounds when that time comes. Because, after all, they are idiots.
It’s a bit disappointing to see some of the negative and dismissive comments towards people who take actions while open carrying that other RKBA advocates think will hurt the movement’s image.
Encouraging people to be mindful of the possible consequences of their actions is one thing, and the guidelines posted here seem like generally sensible suggestions. However we should always remember who the enemy is, and who it isn’t, and treat people who are trying to push the envelope of pro-RKBA activism or social norms or what-not further than we may personally be comfortable doing, with the respect and appreciation they deserve. Taking someone to task for exercising their rights (even if they’re doing it in a way you think is unhelpful to the cause) is doing government’s dirty work for them. Let’s save our ammo (figuratively speaking) for the opposition.
“It’s a bit disappointing to see some of the negative and dismissive comments towards people who take actions while open carrying that other RKBA advocates think will hurt the movement’s image.”
“Taking someone to task for exercising their rights (even if they’re doing it in a way you think is unhelpful to the cause) is doing government’s dirty work for them.”
It’s not a question of whether some of us think open carrying a rifle into a chipotle or chili’s or jack in the box or qdoba or starbucks or any of the other places they went to is a bad idea and hurts the movement’s image. It’s that it’s obviously a bad idea and was just begging to be used against us, which it was. The issue, aside from the morons doing this stuff, is that there are other morons who keep defending and encouraging them to keep doing it.
When people do something that is so utterly useless to the movement and serves no purpose but to draw attention and to make the anti-gunners work easier for them, then it’s fine to call them out. Look at the chili’s video in the huffpo link above. Those guys weren’t just grabbing a quick bite to eat or “educating”. You don’t video tape getting a quick bite to eat, but you sure video attention whoring – which is exactly what they were doing. And when they were asked to leave, they acted like hurt little victims whose rights were violated and that they were being unfairly discriminated against. Nobody has a right to bring a gun into a private restaurant.
It’s not a circular firing squad when we call out negative behavior on our side. There has to be a line for what’s acceptable advocacy, and I think rifle OC in restaurants crosses it. Otherwise where does it end? Do we cheer on morons OCing rifles at the playground too*? Or would you defend that too? I’ll bet Bloomberg and Watts would love to get video of that.
*In PA we actually had a woman OCing at her kid’s soccer game and as expected, it caused a commotion and was used to show gun owners in a bad light. Parents freaked out, her carry permit was revoked, she went to court, went on tv playing the victim card, etc. Thankfully, that kinda worked itself out on its own unlike these OC groups whose sole purpose seems to be going around scaring other soccer moms at restaurants.
I agree with most of what you said, but you brought up the women who OCed at a soccer game. There was NOTHING wrong with that, and that’s a COMPLETELY different situation. Shame on you. She had her rights violated.
Spotted on the web:
http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/index.php/2014/05/24/this-is-one-is-where-i-eat-humble-pie/
Apparently I’m not the only one who thinks C.J. Grisham is part of the problem.
Just like him, you’d be wrong.
Why was it necessary to have to remind people about the TABC sign? Just wondering…
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