Carrying / Self-Defense – Page 47 – Shall Not Be Questioned

Unbelievable Article in the Philly Inquirer

One of the sad facts, as we approach the day that the ban on firearms in National Parks expires, is that we have to listen to the hysterical machinations of the media. I’ve seen some bad ones, but this one from the Philadelphia Inquirer takes the cake:

Whatever the gun rights of law-abiding park visitors, having loaded firearms in the national parks certainly will change the experience for everyone.

Every day could seem like the start of deer hunting season with people strolling the parks armed. That has to be a frightening prospect for families and others who aren’t accustomed to being around guns. And there’s also the risk of accidental shootings.

Like the start of deer season? Because we’re just going to shoot our guns all over eh? Does the Inquirer staff not wonder why this isn’t a problem in state parks, where people can legally carry guns, and have been able to for a few years now? How many times do they have to make dire predictions, only to have them turn out to be gravely wrong? I think this more than anything has destroyed the credibility of the gun control movement in the eyes of the public.

Open Carry Deters Armed Robbers

People have always argued that openly armed individuals are a deterrent against crime, this case from Kennesaw Georgia would seem to bear that out. My opinion is that open carry would likely deter most armed robbers, who are more interested in cash than killing. Seriously violent individuals might just shoot first, but I believe those kinds of folks are a minority.

Retention

Not usually important for civilians who carry guns, unless you open carry. This article over at LawOfficer.com is an insightful treatment of the topic.

When someone puts their hands on your gun during a contact, [a fight to the death] is exactly what you must be prepared for. I testified to the fact that a suspect who touches your gun during a street contact has already demonstrated his intent. Weapon retention and ground fighting tactics do not include a measure of politeness. You must consider any disarming attempt a life-or-death situation. If you honestly feel your weapon retention and/or ground fighting training adequately prepares you for such an encounter, great. But if you have any doubts about your skills or abilities to maintain control of your duty weapon during an attempted disarming, resolve them before you next hit the street.

Not everything is applicable to civilian carrying, but at the least good holster selection and at least some basic retention training are a must if a civilian chooses to carry openly.

Brandishing in Kansas

Eugene Volokh reports on an unusual law in Kansas that actually can make the punishment for brandishing a gun higher than if you actually shot someone, under certain circumstances. I agree with Professor Volokh that this is something Kansas groups should get the legislature to fix, pronto.

More on Permitless Carry

Looks like Wyoming is getting closer to passage. NRA is reporting that there is one hold up in Arizona, and normally pro-gun legislator that they are asking members to put some pressure on. This type of bill has been tried in Wyoming before and failed. To me Arizona is the bigger prize, since it has a major city.

As I’ve said before, the primary purpose of a concealed carry license is a signaling mechanism. In a world where police officers can immediately run a check on someone to find out whether they are prohibited from owning or carrying a firearm, that becomes increasingly irrelevant. It’ll be a long time before we see carry without a permit in Pennsylvania, but the cause is helped by other states with large cities running the experiment. We were ahead of most of the pack during the initial wave of liberalization in the late 80s, and maybe we will be again too, but it’s my take that Pennsylvania politicians are a bit more timid about this stuff than they are in other states that have a stronger pro-gun culture.

Self-Defense in the UK

Even if the Crown Prosecutors aren’t willing to recognize legitimate self-defense when they see it, it would appear that juries in England are still willing to acquit when it’s appropriate. The shame of it is the man had to go through the expense and emotional trauma of a jury trial for doing the right thing. Even in a jurisdiction like New York City, I don’t think this would have been prosecuted here.

A Huge Problem, No Doubt

After all the hubbub about the “Florida Loophole,” Florida has finally release how many Pennsylvania residents have Florida CWLs:

This follows aÂ Daily News article last week about a loophole in Pennsylvania’s gun laws that allows residents who are denied a permit or whose permit is revoked here to obtain one from Florida.

As of Friday, 2,651 Pennsylvania residents carried a Florida permit, said Terry McElroy, spokesman for the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, the agency that issues gun permits.

“We had to write a program but we did it,” he said.

Wow, no doubt those 2651 individuals in Pennsylvania (one of which is me) who have Florida licenses, are a horrible menace to the state, representing a whopping 0.02% of the population. I have no doubt the vast majority of these folks also have Pennsylvania LTCs, and, like me, hold a Florida license because it has reciprocity with many other states, including Delaware.

The Philadelphia Police and Prosecutors ran into one scumbag, and then hit the media like the sky was falling, and they bought it hook, line and sinker. This is a total non-issue.

Context Matters?: AR-15 Open Carry in Michigan

SayUncle says that this isn’t helpful. I have to agree with Tam on this one, “Ten out of ten for enthusiasm, but minus several thousand for Thinking Things All The Fucking Way Through.” What I don’t understand is why folks in the comments, who say they generally support open carry, don’t support this. I have to applaud Packetman for at least being consistent. If there’s no problem with people open carrying a pistol, there’s no problem with people open carrying an AR-15. It’s just a matter of degree. Won’t it get people used to the idea of seeing guns in public? If you say no, then you admit that there’s time, place, and other contextual considerations at play here, in which case it’s fair to say that maybe those who think open carry ought to be legal, but perhaps isn’t effective or appropriate anywhere, anytime might have a point.

Debate over Home Protection in Western New York

While the rest of the country is busy giving homeowners more leeway, it would seem the Buffalo, New York media is trying to stir a debate about whether home defense with deadly force should be allowed at all:

Cherry, a soft-spoken and polite Army veteran, said he was protecting himself from a home burglary at about 11:20 a.m. Jan. 21, when he fired 15 shots from a military-style assault rifle at the vehicle of a fleeing intruder.

OK, that’s a legitimate prosecutable offense, and the fact that it was his step-daughter probably isn’t going to play well in front of a jury. But this shouldn’t be a debate, and I see no reason to drag other, legitimate home defense cases in with this one:

â€¢Â Willie J. Carson, 52, shot Parrish C. Spencer Jr., 22, in the chest Jan. 20, after the younger man broke into Carson’s 25th Street home and went upstairs, Niagara Falls police said.

No charges have been filed against Carson, but police have said the case has been turned over to the Niagara County district attorney’s office for further investigation.

â€¢ An 82-year-old Niagara Falls man, apparently scared and confused after a group of teens attempted to break into his home Jan. 15, fired one shotgun blast at police after they entered the home and found him hiding behind a closed door.

No one was hit, and the elderly man was not charged.

â€¢ Charles E. Gidney Sr., an off-duty Buffalo police officer, shot and killed one intruder, Reno D. Sayles, 36, and seriously wounded another inside his Buffalo home last April 22.

In his statement to police, Gidney said he grabbed his handgun, pointed it at the two men, one wearing a ski mask, and ordered them to “freeze.” Instead, they rushed at him, and he fired several shots, he said.

With the exception of the old man mistakenly shooting at police, all of these look pretty legitimate, even for New York. Fortunately, the Buffalo News goes on to describe the legal distinctions when it comes to using deadly force to defend the home. I think it’s OK for papers to cover this, but it’s not really a “debate” per se. I would find it hard to believe juries even in New York will convict people for shooting home invaders. Shooting at someone fleeing is a different matter.

Another Schuylkyll River Trail Shooting?

Via MikeB, I hadn’t heard about this one. Apparently a guy took a shot at a dog who was charging him. Interestingly enough that he was following good advice:

Bennett said after he crossed the bridge over Markley Street on the way to the Norristown Transportation Center, he spotted a dog running free that was growling in a threatening manner and headed in his direction. Fearing he would be attacked, he fired at the animal with a Glock brand handgun.

Shooting at a dog or other animals threatening to attack a domestic pet or person is legal in Pennsylvania; however, as a precaution, Brooke took the manâ€™s gun and pepper spray he was carrying.

The guy had his gun and spray returned to him. Pepper spray can be useful in these kinds of situations, but charging, angry dog probably isn’t one of them, if your goal is not to get bitten. Given where he was on the trail, I would be concerned the dog was either feral or dangerous myself. I think he made the right call, and obviously the police didn’t have a problem with it. If he had been bitten, you’d want a corpse they can test for rabies. Absent a corpse you go through a series of costly injections as a prophylactic measure. The only problem is that it’s very hard to hit a charging dog, as this guy found out, and unlike humans, an angry dog doesn’t know he’s supposed to stop when he gets shot. I’ve heard of stories of dogs taking multiple hits and still attacking.

It’s not surprising that people carry on the trail. I carried on the trail myself when I used to bike there. The Norristown through Conshohocken leg isn’t the best of neighborhoods, and attacks have happened. I notice also that they didn’t cite this guy for violating the county rule against weapons on the trail. Maybe they got the message that’s not enforceable.