Category: Carrying / Self-Defense

I picked up my new LTC at the local county government service center yesterday, after getting a call the day before it was ready. Time from application to issue was less than a week. The new cards are much much nicer than the old pieces of paper, and definitely nicer than the laminated almost-but-not-quite credit card sized pieces of paper that Chester County issued to me five years ago.  The new card Bucks County is issuing even has security features and a magnetic strip on the back.

I’m good now until 6/06/2012.

Looking over the letter, I think the person may have contacted the incorrect division within the Office of Attorney General, or it was referred to the incorrect division. The division that handles the reciprocity agreements with other states is the Office of Legislative Affairs, and the reply came from The Criminal Prosecution Office. I have worked up a letter to them as well, and will send it along asking for clarification on the previous letter. It’s quite possible the person responding to this letter has little knowledge of the status of our agreements with other states, but nonetheless had to come up with something. We’ll see what kind of answer I get.

I’m going to write to the state police public information person about the non-resident reciprocity issue and see what kind of response I get. I’ll post the actual letter as an update a bit later. Unfortunately, the PSP make it rather difficult to contact them by e-mail, so old fashioned snail mail will have to do.

UPDATE: Here’s what I plan to send:

I am writing to obtain some clarification from the Pennsylvania State Police in regards to the attached letter from the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s office on whether the Pennsylvania State Police recognize out-of-state licenses to carry firearms by people who do not reside in the states with which we have an agreement.  For instance whether a resident of Ohio, in possession of a valid license to carry firearms from The State of New Hampshire, would be able to lawfully carry a firearm in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

I represent a blog, with approximately fifteen thousand visits a month, that covers issues of concern to Pennsylvanians involved in the shooting sports and gun rights communities.  One of my readers brought this issue to my attention, and we would certainly appreciate any clarification the Pennsylvania State Police can offer, in regards to State Police policy, and officer training, on the issue of reciprocity agreements with other states for carrying firearms.

We’ll see how they respond.

From the Pennsylvania State Police Web Site:

Other information included under “Firearm Reciprocity” is a list of states that allow any out of state resident with a valid concealed weapons permit from their home state to carry a weapon while in those respective states. These states usually require the individual to have the actual permit and a photo ID on their person while carrying the weapon.  Note that unless Pennsylvania has a reciprocity agreement with a state, regardless of whether or not their home state recognizes our license/permit, the residents of that state MAY NOT carry a firearm while in Pennsylvania unless they have a current and valid Pennsylvania License to Carry or fall under the exceptions as listed in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106(2)(b).

Emphasis mine.  This would indicate that they view only resident licenses as being valid.   This would be an incorrect view.  I may try to get some clarification from the State Police themselves.  Any law enforcement who holds this view would be gravely in error.

I think there’s been little court play for reciprocity agreements in Pennsylvania.  This letter from the Attorney General’s office would indicate that some law enforcement in the state, including the Pennsylvania State Police, is challenging the notion that people can carry on out-of-state non-resident permits.  The AG’s office is merely saying here that the decision to prosecute is left to the discretion of the local district attorney.

The letter specifically mentions New Hampshire.   Here is our agreement with New Hampshire.

The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will recognize valid New Hampshire permits to carry concealed firearms by valid permit holders while said permit holders are present in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

This agreement is authorized under the Uniform Firearms Act.    §6109.3k:

(k) Reciprocity.–The Attorney General may enter into reciprocity agreements with other states providing for the mutual recognition of each state’s license to carry a firearm.

Given the wording in these agreements, it would seem to me there can be no reasonable reading that would exclude non-resident license holders from other states.   Now, that said, the police are still free to arrest you, and the District Attorney is still free to prosecute you, because government officials can be assholes.   But I wouldn’t let that stop you from carrying.

More later…

via SayUncle and OhioCCW

I submitted my renewal for my LTC. Should be here in about 10 days they said. Bucks County seems to have slightly different procedures than Chester County. For one, they take your picture for you. They wouldn’t take my passport photos from Eckerd. I wish I had known that before I paid for them. For two, it’s local county government clerks that process the application rather than the sheriff’s deputies.

Pennsylvania requires photocopies of any out of state licenses. I think this is mostly for people who are applying from out of state, but it seemed to thoroughly confuse the person processing my application. I have licenses from Florida, New Hampshire, and Washington. I photocopied both front and back, but Washington has nothing on the back, so it wasn’t clear to the person what was going on.

Because they only accept cash, I asked for a reciept, which seemed to put off the clerk, who explained to me that they have to account for the money regardless. Hello! You people are the government! The minute I say “OK, I’ll trust these people. They seem honest and competent.” is the minute I end up on the phone saying “No, I submitted that application to you a month ago, and paid forty six dollars. What do you mean you have no record of it?”  Of course, the LTC is only supposed to cost 19 dollars, but most of the sheriff’s figured out people would pay extra for credit card sized licenses rather than the large pieces of papers spelled out by state law.  I don’t have a problem with this.

I don’t know, on one hand, it’s nice that I didn’t have to go to Doylestown to submit an application. On the other hand, the Sheriff’s deputies in Chester County took my application, said “Looks good to me, if all goes well you should have your LTC in a few weeks.” and that was that. It arrived in the mail a few days later. Once my application is approved here, I have to pick it up. Another trip.

Not sure which I prefer.

Hard to believe it’s been five years already, but I have to renew my PA License to Carry. It actually expires at the end of the month, which means I really need to do it last month, but, though I knew it was expiring, the idea of getting my ass to the Sheriff didn’t really occur to me.

No worries though, even if the PA license expires, I can still carry on Florida and New Hampshire. Since I’ve switched counties in last five years, I have to apply as a new applicant anyway.

UPDATE: Cool, there is a Lower Bucks County Service Center that will process the license for you, right down the street in Levittown. This negates the need for a drive all the way up to the county seat in Doylestown.

This article suggests that there has been no impact either way from Missouri’s concealed carry law:

“When they were debating this, one side was saying it was going to reduce crime and another was saying it was going to cause gunfights in the streets,” Franklin County Sheriff Gary Toelke told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “I really haven’t seen either. It’s really a nonissue right now. You’re not having fights in the streets, but it’s not saving the world either.”

Seems to be the story everywhere this has happened.  I’m happy to see they close out the article with a great statement on why regulating concealed weapons at all is just about completely pointless:

In St. Charles County, sheriff’s Lt. Craig McGuire said that while there have been no reports of such infractions there, by its nature a concealed weapon would not be obvious anyway.

Exactly.  Which is why criminals don’t really think much of ignoring these laws.

A photographer was recently mauled by a grizzly bear.  But really, National Parks are perfectly safe, and what kind of fool would feel the need to carry in one:

 A man whose face was severely mauled by a grizzly in Yellowstone National Park is a photographer and author of books about grizzlies who also had been attacked in 1993. The National Park Service said Jim Cole, 57, was hiking alone, off- trail in prime grizzly habitat Wednesday when he was attacked by a sow with a cub. He apparently was carrying pepper spray but whether he used it was unclear.

Cole told rangers he walked two to three miles to seek help.

Cole, of Bozeman, Mont., was in fair condition Friday at Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center in Idaho Falls. He underwent seven hours of surgery Thursday to repair his face.

Remember, that the National Park Service bureaucracy respects you so much, that they are perfectly willing to risk this happening to you!  I will grant that these types of encounters are rare, but it’s up to me to weigh the risk and decide which measures to take.   Not some bureaucrat in Washington.

I will not comment on exactly how much respect I generally have for the National Park Service ban, but I will say that the kind of firearms you typically need in really wild areas are not typically easy to conceal.  The time has long since passed for the National Park Service to recognize the basic right of citizens the means to defend themselves in our National Parks.