Mothertalkers Update

MotherTalkers has an update post up in regards to the situation I brought to light yesterday. And for the record, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a man being a hairdresser :)

It does bring up a good issue of when is old enough to start teaching the youngins about guns. I was 13 or 14 myself, before I even touched one. I’m actually a pretty firm believer in starting out with air guns, and breaking any unsafe behavior with something that doesn’t have quite so much potential for dangerous accidents. I once had a young kid sweep me with the barrel of a .22 rifle at the range, who promptly got yelled at by pop. I didn’t say anything, because his father dealt with the mistake, but to me it’s better to have kids make those mistakes with air guns, and only when they can consistently use those safely do you move up to firearms.

Hanging Together

Ahab thinks we all need to hang together:

I don’t suppose I’d have to explain why that’s so dangerous; it’s even more dangerous when that same “turf-war” mentality manifests itself on an organization level. I like the NRA; I don’t always support their actions, and I wish they’d send me less mail, but they generally act in the best interests of law-abiding gun owners. Similarly, I like the GOA, I feel like it’s good to have a less moderate voice for gun owners for the times that the NRA drops the ball.

I do not like it when the GOA (or anyone else for that matter) goes after the NRA in an effort to prove who loves the 2nd Amendment more. Take for example this new bill before the House, HR 2640. The GOA has been lambasting the NRA for their support of this bill for a while, despite the fact that the relevant text just became available yesterday.

I couldn’t agree more!  I think GOA and other groups serve an important role in a) keeping the NRA honest, and b) concentrating on areas of gun law the NRA, for political reasons, can’t.  But I do get kind of annoyed with them when they seem to be attacking NRA for political convenience rather than real and substantive criticism.  The tone of many of the other groups communications seems to convey the NRA as the enemy, and I know there are more than a few out there who actually believe that.  You’re entitled to believe that, but I think it’s a very incorrect view.  I sure as hell don’t think the NRA is perfect, I do think they make mistakes, and this whole NICS deal may very well turn out to be one of them.  But I don’t believe they actively work against gun owners.  I believe that they did their best to make this bill a decent deal for gun owners, and to the extent that I didn’t get as much as I would have liked, I blame Congress.

The people I know that work for NRA, or have worked for NRA, are passionate about the issue, don’t get paid much for their work, and have to deal with a lot of crap that would drive you and me bonkers.  It’s easy to be critical, but not easy to have to deal with a hostile media, hostile politicians, the courts, Congress and 50 state legislatures, all the while taking heat from your own side that you’re not doing enough.

What frustrates me is that the other side has all their factions working together. The people that want to ban .50 BMG rifles play nice with the people who want to ban all guns who play nice with the people who just want to ban handguns, and so it goes.

It’s much easier for them because they lack any serious grassroots.  We’re millions of people, each with different quirks, views, and interests.  When you’re well financed by the few, you get the advantage of having it be easier to stay on message, and keep your ducks in a row.

What I’m Settling On

After thinking about this NICS deal, and how it seems to be playing out, I’ve decided that it’s not really much to get worked up about at this point, either for good or for ill.  The Democrats had a chance to build some trust and rapport with the shooting community, after years of sticking it to us, and they are failing.

While I think this deal does some good things, this was a good opportunity for the Democrats to address some real issues with the system, and help allay some of our long time concerns with it.   I’m not going to demand the Democrats dismantle all federal gun controls, make it legal for me to own a machine gun, or anything like that.  I know what the political realities are.  But there are some very legitimate issues in regards to the mental health and misdemeanor prohibitions, just in regards to language and rule clarifications, that I think could have been addressed here, that were not.  Taking this in combination with Carolyn McCarthy being sponsor of this bill, they have slapped us in the face.

Am I going to pull out all the stops to oppose this bill?  Well, not unless they tack on something more onerous to it.  As it stands now, it’s not a bad deal, it’s just not nearly as good as I think it could have been.  Am I mad at the NRA?  No.  I think the bill could have been a real problem for us, and they at least managed to turn it into something that’s, even if only minimally, a good deal.  Am I convinced the Democrats have finally given up on gun control and are now our friends?  Not by a long shot.  If the Democratic party wants to impress folks like me, who certainly have no love or affection for the Republican Party, they are going to have to work a lot harder than this.

Clarification on Language

SayUncle says he can’t find where the language of adjudicated mental defective is clarified in the bill.  After reading it again, I think I may have been mistaken.  The following section is what I was reading as clarification:

(C) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs.

This is limited though, in that this only applies to federal agencies.  This section details the circumstances under which a federal agency may NOT submit a mental health record to the AG for addition into NICS.  This language is probably intended to head off a repeat of the incident in 2000 where the VA submitted 83,000 veterans to NICS.  Under this rule, the person has to have been ruled a danger to himself or others, or a found unable to manage her or her own affairs.

After reading this again, this does not really clarify the GCA ’68 language, and leaves in tact the ATF’s interpretation of adjudicated mental defective.

For the Children

Robyn Ringler thinks it’s time for a change, for the children.

It did not escape me that the hog was killed with 8 bullets from a .50 caliber magnum revolver which I have been told is an unwieldy hunting gun, difficult particularly for a boy to handle, and is probably the reason it took so long and so many shots to kill the poor pig so cruelly.

It certainly wouldn’t have been my weapon of choice for an animal so large, but it’s not an unreasonable choice. I would have probably chosen a .50 BMG or rough ballistic equivalent for game so large, but a large caliber handgun, while not ideal in my view, isn’t a horrid choice, especially given the shooter’s age. A large caliber rifle might be a bit much to lug around.

In regard to the .50 caliber sniper rifle, many have made the point that it has not YET been used to shoot down a plane and has not YET been used to kill a lot of people. But, that is typical of America. We seem to wait for tragedy and then we take action. I want to PREVENT tragedy before it happens. I don’t believe I’m acting unreasonably afraid or emotional. I believe there is a real threat of terrorism from the .50 caliber sniper rifle and that it should be banned.

Yes, how very typical of America that we are very protective of our constitutional rights, and are demanding of those insisting we restrict them. And yes, you are acting irrationally and afraid, because there are other rifle calibers out there with capabilities similar to the .50BMG, which are used for big game hunting, which you’re not talking about banning. You want to ban .50 cals because they look scary.

Ironically, the argument that a particular weapon should not be banned if it has not already caused sufficient harm seems to support an argument (which I have not made) for the banning of guns that HAVE caused sufficient harm, namely, the handguns most often used in homicides, suicides and accidents involved in almost 30,000 gun deaths each year in America.

And they are used, even by conservative estimates, about 800,000 times a year by Americans in self-defense. They are also used by millions of Americans, including myself, for sport.

In regard to the question of whether we should consider children engaging in gang activity “children” when they are killed by guns, the answer is unequivocally yes. Children are children no matter who kills them with guns, even if they kill each other. We, as a society, are allowing them to have guns by not preventing them from having guns. WE are responsible.

Last I checked, federal and state laws prohibit children from purchasing firearms, or possessing them outside of lawful, supervised activity. Since this is already illegal, how are more laws going to help?

If banning guns in the inner cities is not keeping guns out of the hands of 12, 13, and 14 year old children, then we need to think of another way. I repeat. We need to keep children in the inner cities out of the gun loop. It is the only responsible thing to do.

I agree, we need to think of another way, so will you agree then that gun control is a mostly useless method for doing this?  If you want ideas on how to reduce inner city violence, maybe we can agree that the “War on Drugs” has been an utter failure, and has done nothing except encouraged a violent black market trade.   Perhaps the time has come, rather than criminalizing gun possession, we should decriminalize drugs.

NRA Blog Statement on NICS Deal

The NRA has a blog entry up in regards to H.R.2640:

The NICS bill, as written, wouldn’t expand the definition of a prohibited person. It wouldn’t disqualify anyone currently able to legally purchase a firearm. In fact, it would provide an opportunity for people who’ve been disqualified to clear their name. Right now, folks don’t have that ability. Gun owners lose nothing in the bill as it’s currently written, and in fact the bill improves the system for those who’ve been caught in the bureaucratic red tape.

I understand that, and I agree, that a good deal was worked out, but:

So why is this being called a gun-control bill? In part because one of the bill’s authors is anti-gun Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy. It’s easy to call any piece of legislation from McCarthy anti-gun, even if it’s not. But the biggest reason the media’s calling this “gun-control” is because they’re desperate to report on a gun-control victory in Congress.

Do you guys have any idea how much harder it makes explaining this bill to other gun owners because Carolyn McCarthy has her name on it? What efforts were made to get her off it? Did you guys even try? Sure the media is desperate to report this as a gun control victory, and by not getting McCarthy away from this legislation, you just made that a whole lot easier for them to do.

Here’s the simple truth: If this bill turns into a piece of gun-control legislation, the NRA will withdraw its support. We won’t stand idly by while the bill is amended by the anti-gunners in the House or Senate. This is a bill that’s designed to improve the reporting by states to the NICS system, as well as provide an opportunity for people to clear their names once they’ve completed treatment for an illness, and that’s it. The addition of any anti-gun provisions will turn this piece of legislation into a poison pill, and the NRA will actively oppose its passage.

I’m glad the NRA has stated this, but I’m still nervous. Fire is being played with here. I do not trust the leadership of this Democratic Congress on the gun issue any farther than I can throw them, and I certainly don’t trust the loon from New York who is sponsoring this. I do hope NRA has its ducks lined up, and this will go through smoothly without any special additions. I do think it’s a good deal, but I still think NRA has screwed up by letting Carolyn McCarthy have any part in it. I’d really like an explanation for how that happened.

Having Issues With McCarthy’s Sponsorship

I am rather nonplussed at Carolyn McCarthy’s sponsorship of H.R.2640. I would have sincerely hoped that any deal that could be worked out would have sidelined her, and relegated her to a co-sponsorship, rather than being sponsor.

I don’t really like personality politics. I’d much rather judge a bill according to its merits, rather than by the person sponsoring it, but there are important political considerations at work in wanting to keep McCarthy sidelined, and out of the process.

McCarthy is rabidly anti-gun. She doesn’t have a modicum of trust with gun owners. Any political deal with her is automatically suspect. Her pet issue is gun control. To date, she’s accomplished exactly nothing in regards to getting any major gun legislation passed. This is good for us. If she gets a reputation for getting things done, she’ll gain more political clout.

With McCarthy out there as the leader on this legislation, even if that leadership is entirely symbolic, the media and anti-gun groups will spin this as a big victory for gun control, even though it’s no such thing in the current form. This is a net loss for our cause, because the NRA will be seen as complicit in it, and folks won’t bother to check on the details.

I do think Dingell, Boucher, and the NRA have worked out a favorable deal with this bill, but I think they’ve made a big error in letting Congresswoman McCarthy take possession of it. It’s certainly making me reconsider my decision to not oppose the bill, based on the information I have now. Tomorrow I may contact the NRA, and see if I can get an explanation here.

Breaking News on NICS Deal

Dave Hardy has the language, and cuts to the relevant parts for us. The bill will be HR2640. Take a read. As best as I can tell from my reading of it, the key things we get out of this are:

  • Clarification of the language of what “adjudicated mental defective” actually means.
  • Ability to have mental health related disability removed through a state process
  • The ability to appeal decisions of state bodies in regards to mental health related disability removal.

I was hoping for a little more, personally. But this addresses much of the concern we had about state mental health records being put into NICS. I still believe this bill is a net gain for us rather than a loss, so given the current language, I’m still inclined to not oppose passage of this bill.

UPDATE: You can see the bill here on GovTrack.  Still no text yet, but we can see the cosponsors.   I am very sorry to say that the sponsor of this legislation is Carolyn McCarthy.  I’m guessing the Democrats let her introduce the bill so she wouldn’t get snubbed by her own party.  This is a disappointment.  The Democrats would have pulled off more of a public relations coup by having Boucher introduce it.

More on the “Study”

Via David, this article gives us more information on the Wintemute “study”:

Another surprise was the straw purchases. Wintemute thought they would be uncommon no matter the location of the gun show because federal law bans straw purchases nationwide. Instead, he reported seeing “24 definite and three probable straw purchases” in the four comparison states, and “one straw purchase and one probable straw purchase” in California.

Some were fairly blatant. On three occasions, all outside California, he observed straw purchasers buying multiple guns in a single transaction. He even saw a licensed retailer at a gun show in Florida processing multiple straw purchases simultaneously.

Also in Florida, Wintemute saw a woman in her twenties buying a rifle with a bayonet and 30-round magazine from a licensed retailer while her male partner, who had selected the firearm, stood 15 feet away while she completed the paperwork. As the background check was being run on her, the man talked with the retailer about the rifle and then bought ammunition for it once the background check had been completed.

I don’t think Wintemute understands what a straw purchase is. Only if the other party is a prohibited person, which, unless you heard the guy say “I’m a convicted felon” or “I can’t pass the background check” or something like that, it’s not a straw purchase under the law. For all this guy knows, the boyfriend was helping his girlfriend buy her first rifle. This is not illegal activity, and portraying it as such is disingenuous and unethical. But that’s what we’ve come to expect from people like this.

Straw purchases, particularly in the comparison states, were “out in the open, with no evidence that the buyer or seller felt the need to hide their conduct,” Wintemute said. “So I infer from that that there’s no substantial effort to enforce [the federal law banning straw purchases] at gun shows.”

Of course it was out in the open, because it’s not a straw purchase, and not illegal, unless the other person is known to be a prohibited person by the person transferring the firearm to them.